In a quiet(-ish) cafe in Porto, just before the recent Commonwealth of Free Spirits Conference that took place in that fine city, Adam Ormes and I sat down to talk with writer, musician and activist Troy Southgate about his life and political work.
Fascinating conversation! So many prejudices prevail because of historical misconceptions that are seemingly manufactured to maintain the status quo. Thank you for illuminating the history, in a first-hand experience, of the National Front. The Left/Right paradigm is reduced to meaninglessness unless the nuances are explored thoroughly. Really enjoyed this!
My two sons told me about Distributism and Subsidiarity in the early 2000s - had never heard of them, though I had read Chesterton's Father Brown stories and had heard of Belloc's The Servile State - considered to be a classic of political essayism - which no one read, so I didn't read it either at age 17 - but read GB Shaw's essays on socialism instead. For me, Christian by background, socialism was a vague principle of people cooperating and helping each other, which seemed to me the only way of avoiding the merciless competition of our mercenary, un-Christian, cutthroat society. We 1960s do-gooding 'radicals' foolishly lumped state socialism in with libertarian/anarcho socialism, anarchism, etc. We were all, we supposed, on the same side - the Left. The corporate capitalists, the 'straights', the Fascists, racists, sexist/chauvinists, et al were on the Right. End of story. In spite of much evidence - direct evidence - that most socialists were fascists- even many of the socalled revolutionary anarchists were Fascists in our terms, I ignored that evidence, and fellow-travelled with Marxists and Sate Socialists as a non-Marxist, Christian/Buddhist/Libertarian/Green/Gay and Womens Lib supporting Socialist. Fellow-travelled with friends who told me that though they really liked me, after the revolution they would have to shoot me as a back-sliding revisionist. And still I fellow-travelled, though after twice being accused of being a fascist spy at demnstrations by SWP 'witch-hunters, and on one occasion, beaten, I declined any more socialist demos. Now? The demonic seems to me to reside in all of these 'collectivist' movements that worship abstract ideas, imagined communities of strangers, and hagiographies of 'leaders' who are almost to a man or woman, psychopaths. Small is beautiful. Except for elephants and whales! And bison. Don't forget bison. Also gorillas. And zebras. Not so keen on hippopotami. Ah well - no abosulte rules.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts - I'm sorry you ended up on the receiving end. The alliance between stateless socialists and their statist counterparts is a familiar story and whether it's Bolshevik Russia, Civil War Spain or 1974 Portugal the communists have betrayed their Anarchist allies time and time again. I'm with you on the gorillas, by the way, I don't trust them at all.
Very interesting but I struggled to hear what Troy was saying. Did he touch on the "4th industrial revolution"/technology as I wonder if he sees how de centralistaion tied to the blockchain isn't really freedom from the current power set up.
Also, does he know who is in control and was behind Covid 19?
If this was not covered in this interview perhaps you can point me in the right direction ie to his writing. Thank you.
Thank you for your reply, Troy! I will read your work with interest. I am now coming to the conclusion that even a lot of the resistance is there to lead us where they wanted us all along so I am often in a lonely place.
Tried to get your site but The Machine just stalled: not stopping yet. But what to do when this attempt to revive the small presses of the early years of printing with internet will either be crushed by the Big Boys, or the whole Machine just stops? Ham radio? Semaphore? Relay runners? Monotype? Mimeographs? Forget photocopies - too high tech.
I'm a total ignoramus when it comes to technical matters, I'm afraid! The site does tend to stall on phones and tablets, but I find it works better on the pc. As for photocopying, I used to spend my life doing that kind of thing - although trying to get the damn stapler to work was a life sentence in itself.
Fascinating conversation! So many prejudices prevail because of historical misconceptions that are seemingly manufactured to maintain the status quo. Thank you for illuminating the history, in a first-hand experience, of the National Front. The Left/Right paradigm is reduced to meaninglessness unless the nuances are explored thoroughly. Really enjoyed this!
My two sons told me about Distributism and Subsidiarity in the early 2000s - had never heard of them, though I had read Chesterton's Father Brown stories and had heard of Belloc's The Servile State - considered to be a classic of political essayism - which no one read, so I didn't read it either at age 17 - but read GB Shaw's essays on socialism instead. For me, Christian by background, socialism was a vague principle of people cooperating and helping each other, which seemed to me the only way of avoiding the merciless competition of our mercenary, un-Christian, cutthroat society. We 1960s do-gooding 'radicals' foolishly lumped state socialism in with libertarian/anarcho socialism, anarchism, etc. We were all, we supposed, on the same side - the Left. The corporate capitalists, the 'straights', the Fascists, racists, sexist/chauvinists, et al were on the Right. End of story. In spite of much evidence - direct evidence - that most socialists were fascists- even many of the socalled revolutionary anarchists were Fascists in our terms, I ignored that evidence, and fellow-travelled with Marxists and Sate Socialists as a non-Marxist, Christian/Buddhist/Libertarian/Green/Gay and Womens Lib supporting Socialist. Fellow-travelled with friends who told me that though they really liked me, after the revolution they would have to shoot me as a back-sliding revisionist. And still I fellow-travelled, though after twice being accused of being a fascist spy at demnstrations by SWP 'witch-hunters, and on one occasion, beaten, I declined any more socialist demos. Now? The demonic seems to me to reside in all of these 'collectivist' movements that worship abstract ideas, imagined communities of strangers, and hagiographies of 'leaders' who are almost to a man or woman, psychopaths. Small is beautiful. Except for elephants and whales! And bison. Don't forget bison. Also gorillas. And zebras. Not so keen on hippopotami. Ah well - no abosulte rules.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts - I'm sorry you ended up on the receiving end. The alliance between stateless socialists and their statist counterparts is a familiar story and whether it's Bolshevik Russia, Civil War Spain or 1974 Portugal the communists have betrayed their Anarchist allies time and time again. I'm with you on the gorillas, by the way, I don't trust them at all.
Eye-opening. Want more.
very interesting but the sound is too low!
Very interesting but I struggled to hear what Troy was saying. Did he touch on the "4th industrial revolution"/technology as I wonder if he sees how de centralistaion tied to the blockchain isn't really freedom from the current power set up.
Also, does he know who is in control and was behind Covid 19?
If this was not covered in this interview perhaps you can point me in the right direction ie to his writing. Thank you.
Hi Munchy, I'm one of the unjabbed and well aware of the scam that has been taking place over the last few years. You can find some of my work here:
https://nowhere.news/index.php/author/troy-southgate/
Thank you for your reply, Troy! I will read your work with interest. I am now coming to the conclusion that even a lot of the resistance is there to lead us where they wanted us all along so I am often in a lonely place.
Tried to get your site but The Machine just stalled: not stopping yet. But what to do when this attempt to revive the small presses of the early years of printing with internet will either be crushed by the Big Boys, or the whole Machine just stops? Ham radio? Semaphore? Relay runners? Monotype? Mimeographs? Forget photocopies - too high tech.
I'm a total ignoramus when it comes to technical matters, I'm afraid! The site does tend to stall on phones and tablets, but I find it works better on the pc. As for photocopying, I used to spend my life doing that kind of thing - although trying to get the damn stapler to work was a life sentence in itself.
Is the south gate the one the trojan horse came through? ;)
Shhhhh! :)